Michael Sukkar MP

INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS KENNY, SKY NEWS AUSTRALIA

THE HON MICHAEL SUKKAR MP – SHADOW MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, NDIS, HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS KENNY, SKY NEWS AUSTRALIA

Thursday, 10 November 2022

TOPICS: The National Disability Insurance Scheme

E&OE

MICHAEL SUKKAR

In that instance it was pretty clear from the Sky News report that those funds were being used improperly. There are other instances where following a Federal Court decision, services – whether they be prostitution, presumably visits to brothels – have been in some instances deemed as ‘reasonable and necessary’, as outlined under the legislation. My message is very clear, Australians support the NDIS, Australians are very happy to go to work each and every day and see their taxpayer dollars go to worthy things like the NDIS, but when we signed up to this Scheme, we did not sign up for prostitution and money being spent in brothels under the NDIS. So, our position, and my position is very clear – it is improper, it should not be something that is allowed, because ultimately every dollar that is spent on a prostitute is one less dollar that could be spent on worthy recipients under the Scheme. We know the cost pressures the NDIS faces – even though Bill Shorten the Minister said before the election there were no sustainability issues within the NDIS – now that they’re in Government, he says something quite different. So, my position is very, very clear on this, Chris. Money under the NDIS should not be spent on prostitution and brothels, full stop.

CHRIS KENNY

Yeah, look I think most Australians would agree with you, you need to change the law or whatever needs to be done to make sure there can be no official prostitution funded by the NDIS, but the example where another carer is presumably paid for under some other category and provides prostitution services, obviously that’s a rort. But if Jonathan Lea and Sky News were able to uncover that, it’s an insight isn’t it – into how easy it must be to rort the system overall – to pay people for one service but get something completely different.

MICHAEL SUKKAR

And that’s why the former Coalition government set up a fraud taskforce, I think that work needs to be done at an even greater pace. The reality is, big Schemes like this rely on compliance activity, it relies on making sure people are spending the money allocated on their plans on things that are allowed and that are stipulated in their plans, and the only way that you can track down that fraud, Chris, is if you have rigorous compliance, and if you have penalties for people ultimately who deliberately and fraudulently break the rules. The Minister now has been in the seat for six months. Bill Shorten has done nothing about this, he’s said a lot, he’s diagnosed a lot of problems, but no solutions. At the end of the day for a Scheme like the NDIS – its long-term viability and sustainability is going to partly rely on ensuring that the money is being spent on what Australians would reasonably expect the NDIS to fund. Again, prostitutes, spending it in brothels, that is not what I think the vast majority of Australians were signing up for when the NDIS was established, and the Minister should stop it today.

CHRIS KENNY

Now, the problems we’re seeing unfold were not unexpected. As soon as you set up a big national Scheme like this, everybody knew it would be open to rorts, you’ve got to police that very carefully. The other problem that was always going to occur is how you allow people to qualify, and especially given it’s the Federal Government’s program now, the states might be trying to shift more people onto the Federal program – the NDIS. Bill Shorten has been saying that’s a problem now. How can you be tough enough to sort of stop so many people coming onto the Scheme, especially if it’s the state governments that have been trying to push them onto the NDIS.

MICHAEL SUKKAR

There are two parts to this, Chris. At the end of the day the NDIS is increasing in cost because it’s helping more people. In the end, the Coalition in our time in government saw the NDIS rise from 30,000 participants to more than half a million and those participants are worthy of that assistance, and we’re the ones who saw that growth quite happily. People who genuinely need that assistance should have it available to them. The issues that you’ve described with the NDIS go back to its formation when Bill Shorten in the Gillard government was negotiating with the states, along with Julia Gillard. The states had them over a barrel, they were a chaotic government as Labor governments tend to be, and the states hoodwinked them into an agreement which basically means the Federal government sees virtually all the upside growth in the Scheme. That is a significant cost shift from the states to the Federal Government. It’s good that Bill Shorten has recognised that he was completely outplayed by those states when they initially negotiated that agreement, but he’s not said what he’s going to do about it. Running around giving interviews saying the states should step up, the states need to do more, the states are abrogating responsibility – which are all things that Bill Shorten has effectively said – is not enough. What is the plan to solve it? What is the plan to improve it?

CHRIS KENNY

It is a big challenge for Government, thanks so much for joining us, Michael.

MICHAEL SUKKAR

Good on you, Chris. Thanks so much.