Michael Sukkar MP

Interview with Patricia Karvelas – ABC Radio National Breakfast

THE HON MICHAEL SUKKAR MP – SHADOW MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, NDIS, HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS – ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST

Tuesday 15 October, 2024

TOPICS: Housing

E&OE

Patricia Karvelas: ‘Stop spruiking a fake promise.’ Those are the words of the shadow Housing Minister, Michael Sukkar, as he claims the Federal Government won’t meet its five year housing target and that home ownership had never been more unattainable. The federal and state Territory governments aim to build 1.2 million new well-located homes over five years from mid 2024. But Michael Sukkar says they’d be lucky if they got to 800,000. He joins us now. Welcome to the program.

Michael Sukkar: Good morning, Patricia.

Patricia Karvelas: We are only four months into a five year target. Why call it a failure so early on?

Michael Sukkar: Well, I think it’s not just Michael Sukkar, it’s the Master Builders Association, the Housing Industry Association and many others that are making very clear that the statistics show that there’s no way the government is going to meet their promise. We saw the commencement data for the last financial year, which dropped again by nearly 10 per cent to 158,000 new starts. Under Labor’s promise, they would need to have a stunning form reversal and turn that into 240,000. So they’re not even two thirds of the way towards what they’ve promised. And I think, you know, there’s a fine line between having an aspirational target and flat out lying to Australians and misleading Australians. The idea, as I said, that they all of a sudden going to have a stunning form reversal from 158,000 to 240,000, I think stretches the bounds of credulity. So, the minister should be honest, come out today and fess up that the Master Builders Association, the Housing Industry Association and the opposition are telling the truth. And that is there’s no way the government will get anywhere near 1.2 million.

Patricia Karvelas: Why would a government want to do that? Wouldn’t it want to try and reverse what you say is a trend and try and achieve its goals given we’ve got a housing crisis?

Michael Sukkar: Well, because there’s a difference between, as I said, an aspirational target and a target that’s a flat out lie that is being used to try and create an impression that things are happening that aren’t. As I said, at 158,000, which is a third of the way short of 240,000, you’re nowhere near. And so at that point you’re lying to Australians. You are not actually fronting up and telling the truth and levelling with people. You’re trying to create an impression that is not there. And as I said, it was the Master Builders Association who put a release out just a couple of days ago that said the Government will be lucky to reach 800,000, which would be fewer homes in a five year period than we’ve built for 25 years.

Patricia Karvelas: Okay. So let’s talk about….

Michael Sukkar: Sorry Patricia, over the last five years of a Coalition government we built more than a million homes. And the fact that that’s dropping like a stone under this government is really quite a disgrace on their efforts.

Patricia Karvelas: Given the coalition was in power for so long before this term of the Labor government – Do you accept your responsibility in a growing housing crisis? It didn’t just arrive at the beginning of the Albanese government’s term, did it?

Michael Sukkar: Well, what I’ll accept is that on every single metric, whether it’s housing starts, whether it’s the number of first home buyers, whether it’s the number of homes completed, that we were significantly higher under the Coalition government, on every single metric, Patricia, housing has gone backwards and not just by a little bit, but by quite a large margin. The problem also with the latest commencement data, Patricia, is they’re the homes that are going to be built over the next 12 to 18 months and the fact that that’s down now by nearly another 10 per cent shows that if we are in a housing crisis now, it’s going to get worse because fewer homes will be built over the next 12 to 18 months. Meanwhile, the Government’s still running, running their world record migration program, which will put even more pressure on rents and we’ve seen rents up by more than 22 per cent in the duration that they’ve been in Government.

Patricia Karvelas: Let me ask this. Because we are pretty close to a federal election. Will you keep this promise for 1.2 million homes if you are elected?

Michael Sukkar: No, because the promise that the Labor Party has made is not a promise. It’s a promise that’s already failed.

Patricia Karvelas: So you’re saying that if he were elected, you don’t think that you could meet it either?

Michael Sukkar: Well, no. What we will do is we will level with Australians on what we think can be done. Now, as I said, the former Coalition government built more than a million homes. This government, based on their current trajectory, will build less than 800,000 homes. So we have quite a strong track record of building many more homes. We will build as many homes as we possibly can. What we won’t do is lie to Australians by plucking a figure out of thin air while housing approvals are dropping even further and while they’re running a massive migration program. So let’s be very clear. This was their target. This was their promise. They’re already failing on that promise. There are 158,000 when they needed to be at 240,000. So they you know, they’re not messing about a little bit, Patricia, they’re missing it by a long way. They are accountable for their promises. I’m not going to…

Patricia Karvelas: No, no. I’m just wondering what would be the alternative if you were to be elected. I’m not holding you to account for Labor’s promises, but for what the alternative would look like under a Coalition Government.

Michael Sukkar: We will build as many homes as we possibly can, what we won’t do is lie to Australians and create an impression that we’re going to build more homes that aren’t going to be delivered. So the truth is, and I said it at the time that it was quite peculiar that they plucked this target seemingly out of thin air. This target started at a million homes and they weren’t on track to made a million. And then all of a sudden, even when they weren’t on track to meet a million, they upped their target to 1.2, which had most people in the industry scratching their heads.

Patricia Karvelas: Well, what they did also, which you didn’t mention, is they gave extra money to the states and territories. Right. So they could try and accelerate.

Michael Sukkar: Well, that’s the worst of both worlds, because if they now spending more money for worse results, that just means taxpayers are doing even worse.

Patricia Karvelas: So would states and territories lose that extra money under a Coalition government?

Michael Sukkar: Well, let’s, for example, the $3 billion of extra money that is being handed to the states isn’t being handed to them until 28-29. I mean, this is the other problem with this government, Patricia. There’s been no sense of urgency with what they have done. The Housing Australia Future Fund, it’s taken two and a half years before even $1 has come out of it. We’ve seen the succession of their policies take years to deliver. Their Help to Buy legislation took took more than two years for them to bring it to the parliament now. And when you’re in government and there’s a crisis or an issue, you’ve got to move quickly.

Patricia Karvelas: So what would you do differently? So if you’re elected as soon as May next year, what would you do differently to deliver more homes? Because a lot of the proposals we’ve heard, they’re demand side, they’re not supply side. So what would change under a Coalition government to really accelerate the supply of housing in this country, given we are having a housing crisis. No one contests that.

Michael Sukkar: We will announce a range of policies that are going to get housing moving in our view, that are going to get approvals moving more quickly. That will get particularly new greenfield estates moving again. The most affordable form of housing is detached housing in this country. And one of the reasons for that, quite frankly, is and we saw this in the commencement data just this week, apartments are not being built because they just do not stack up for a range of reasons, not only the lack of, or the costs associated with approvals, but the sheer costs with building them because of a whole host of issues, including regulatory changes that this government’s brought in.

Patricia Karvelas: But a lot of those things are not under your control as a Federal Government, so what would you do?

Michael Sukkar: Well, no, but there’s regulatory changes that this government has bought in that have added to the cost of a home by about $45,000 in national construction code changes, which is chaired by the Commonwealth, which has added about $45,000 to the cost of a new home in conjunction with environmental changes that have been made. Now these are changes that just increase the cost of delivering first home buyer stock and that will mean and it does literally mean for many Australians the difference between being able to save, to buy a home or not – a $45,000 increase has been the difference for a lot of people.

Patricia Karvelas: If you’re just tuning in, Michael Sukkar is my guest. He’s the Shadow Housing Minister. You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. Just to fact check you $2 billion has already gone to the States. But you talk about in the years 28-29.

Michael Sukkar: But Patricia, that’s the worst of both worlds. Because if the government is seriously suggesting that that is an effective spend of their money, why on earth are the number of homes being built dropping each year on their watch?

Patricia Karvelas: Just to ask about the years 28 to 29 – Are you saying you don’t want that money to go to the states and territories? I just want some clarity on that.

Michael Sukkar: Well, we’ll have more to say about what we will do with housing closer to the election as far as the exact policies…

Patricia Karvelas: Is one of the options on the table, taking money from the states and territories?

Michael Sukkar: Well, we don’t take money from the states and territories. The question will be how much money is paid through to the states and territories. Now, our basic view is this – We will spend money that’s effective, we will not spend money that’s just a gesture. Now, the problem with the government thus far is they come out and say, well, we’ve handed over money to the states, and guess what? The states are not delivering. All you’ve got to do is look at the numbers, Patricia, you don’t need to believe me. You don’t need to believe the Master Builders Association or the Housing Industry Association. Look at the numbers. And so if the Labor Party is suggesting we are now in the worst of both worlds, that they are handing money over to the States hand over fist, yet we’re getting fewer homes built and at the same time they’re running their world record migration program, no, the Coalition will not be continuing with those sorts of failed policies.

Patricia Karvelas: Michael Sukkar, thanks for joining us this morning.

Michael Sukkar: Thank you, Patricia.

ENDS