Michael Sukkar MP

Interview with Steve Canane – ABC Radio National Breakfast

THE HON MICHAEL SUKKAR MP – SHADOW MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, NDIS, HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH STEVE CANANE – ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST

Monday 21 October, 2024

TOPICS: Housing Infrastructure Programme

E&OE

Steve Canane: The Coalition says it will invest $5 billion to fast track construction of critical infrastructure like water power sewerage and access roads in new housing developments if it’s elected at the next federal election. It says this will help unlock up to half a million homes in undeveloped Greenfield corridors corridors across the country. The Business Council is today announcing what they want, they want a $10 billion and some more skilled migration to increase construction. Michael Sukkar is the Shadow Housing Minister and he joins me now, welcome to program.

Michael Sukkar: Good morning, Steve.

Steve Canane: Before we talk about your policy let’s talk about this Business Council proposal that’s being launched today – they want $10 billion in a federal plan to cut the cost of construction, they want financial incentives to build housing, they want the states and territories to replace stamp duties with a land tax, they want a judicial inquiry into corruption in the industry. Do you support this proposal?

Michael Sukkar: Well, Steve, I’m aware of of the work that they have done and there would certainly be parts of what they have recommended that we would wholeheartedly support, other things that we’d have to look at in more detail and perhaps even have reservations with. But the general thrust of of what they’re suggesting we think makes imminent sense, particularly pulling costs out of construction. The truth is that our housing industry and construction is over regulated and over taxed and for every dollar of regulation and tax that you put on housing, ultimately that is borne by the end consumer – by the person either purchasing or renting a home.So, as part of what we announced on the weekend, pleasingly, I think for the BCA is a 10 year freeze to the National Construction Code which will reduce red tape – we know that the latest changes to the National Construction Code on average increased house prices for new homes by $25-30,000 and up to $60,000 in some cases so, I think there’s a lot in a lot in what the BCA said that I think any sensible person could support.

Steve Canane: The BCA also wants an increase in the foreign work in foreign workers with construction skills that’s something the Master Builders also want do you support that?

Michael Sukkar: Well we have said two things on this, firstly we want to reduce migration in order to free up 100,000 homes for Australians. The truth is under the Albanese government we’re building fewer homes we built for a very long time and yet we’re bringing more and more people in and also perversely, Steve, we’re bringing bringing less people with the sorts of skills that assist with our building industry so as an aspiration we certainly think that that’s worthy.

Steve Canane: So how do you do that if you’re gonna cut the number of permanent visas to 140,000 a year? Because we don’t know yet whether those cuts will come from either family reunion visas or skilled migration – will you quarantine skilled migration in the construction industry from those cuts?

Michael Sukkar: Well I think the simple answer is you gotta re-orientate the composition of who you bring in – the truth is…

Steve Canane: So is that a yes or a no?

Michael Sukkar: Well the answer is what I’ve said, you’ve got to re-orientate the entire program and at the moment we all, in recent times, we’ve had the Labor Party bringing in more yoga instructors than bricklayers, that’s not where we think the migration program should be…

Steve Canane: Okay but I’m asking you to respond to what the BCA want and what the Master Builders want – they want more foreign workers with construction skills – will the Coalition either quarantine it or increase the amount of construction workers?

Michael Sukkar: Steve, I can’t be any more clear – what it requires is a re-orientation of who you’re bringing in. Quite clearly we’ve made clear we’re going to reduce migration to free up 100,000 homes for Australians. Now, you can simultaneously ensure that of the generous migration program that Australia does have in place that you re-orientate it to the sorts of skills we need – so in that sense we have no criticisms of what the BCA and Master Builders have…

Steve Canane: Okay let’s talk more about your policy that you’ve launched on the weekend – how would it increase housing supply?

Michael Sukkar: Well I think the easiest way is to look at examples – so we’ve announced the Housing Infrastructure Programme as you said, Steve, to unlock 500,000 new homes around the country. As a really good example, yesterday I was out in Drouin with our Liberal candidate in Monash, Mary Aldred and Senator Bridget McKenzie where we’ve got a $4.2 million upgrade to a road that the Baw Baw Shire Council has told us will unlock the approval of 5,000 new homes. So a very modest investment into a road that’s currently closed because there’s too much traffic through there, so for safety reasons the councils have to cut to close it. If that road was upgraded with a contribution from the federal government of $4.2 million they would be able to approve 5,000 homes. Now, there are literally hundreds of those types of projects not just roads as you said at the outset, Steve, water, sewerage, other civil works. These are the things at the moment that are not being funded, they’re holding up projects for up to a decade and in some cases projects that may never go ahead without this funding.

Steve Canane: Labor’s saying that’s not the case, Labor’s saying that’s not the case, they’re saying your policy is replicating what they’re doing already Murray Watt said on Insiders yesterday – we’ve already put out there pretty much the same amount of money to do exactly the same thing that Peter Dutton announced – is that right?

Michael Sukkar: Well I think that’s a very easy fact check there, Steve, and it’s a great compliment to us that the greatest criticism that the Labor Party could make of our policy, which has unanimous support of the MBA, HIA, Property Council, UDiA and by other industry bodies alike – is that we’re somehow copying them. They have a fund, granted, they do have an infrastructure fund for housing – the problem is they’re using that fund at the moment to fund councils for more bureaucracy, so more public servants to undertake planning and scoping and other work. No money that actually goes into the physical infrastructure. Our fund is not for talk fests, it’s not for public servants, it’s not for bureaucracy – it’s for pipes, it’s for bitumen, it’s for concrete, it’s for things that get…

Steve Canane: Okay they dispute that. They dispute that.

Michael Sukkar: Well sorry, Steve, that’s the first fact check – so their $500 million fund at the moment is being used for bureaucracy, not infrastructure. The other $3 billion that they talk about, Steve, that Murray Watt was referring to yesterday on Insiders would not be payable until 2028-29 to the States. Now, we are in a housing crisis right now and if you want an example of why the Labor Party does not get the urgency of this problem – they are talking about funding that they promised to the states in 5 years’ time. I mean it’s an insult to Australians that they suggest that that somehow is funding that’s assisting. The programme we announced will make a difference and will get 500,000 additional homes approved.

Steve Canane: Okay they dispute that – we’re gonna move on cause there’s a few other things I wanna talk about about housing policy.

Michael Sukkar: Well they can dispute that, but that’s in the forward estimates, so there’s no argument about when that $3 billion falls…

Steve Canane: Okay, you’ve made made your point on that, I want to move on – it’s 17 minutes to 8:00am on Radio National Breakfast and we’re talking to Michael SukKar who is the Coalition’s housing spokesperson and they’ve announced their policy over the weekend around housing supply. Do you have a policy for improving housing supply in already established neighbourhoods where there is already infrastructure? Because this seems to be focused on the Greenfield sites.

Michael Sukkar: Well this fun will be agnostic, I mean our expectation is that the greatest opportunities are in Greenfield sites – that’s where the seems to be a lack of infrastructure, but this fund will be agnostic as to the types of projects. In the end there’ll be a very simple equation here, now there’ll be a lot of complications to, it’ll be an expression of interest process run at arms length from ministers by the department. But ultimately the equation here will be how many dollars do you need for the infrastructure, whatever it might be, and how many homes are yielded from that spend. Now if you’ve got an urban infill project that can deliver a huge output of housing for an infrastructure request or proposal, it’s not precluded from this fund, but our expectation is in having the hundreds of councils we’ve met with over the last couple of years, that the greatest opportunities are in our Greenfield sites in detached housing, but it doesn’t preclude all other opportunities.

Steve Canane: Would it be better, though, like your focus is on the Greenfield sites and undoubtedly those sites need infrastructure but would it be better to try and build more homes in areas where there is already infrastructure and better access to jobs and transport?

Michael Sukkar: Well I I just don’t agree that there’s no access to jobs and transport in some of the Greenfield locations…

Steve Canane: But if there’s no infrastructure, if there’s no roads like your example earlier there’s no, there’s not much access to transport.

Michael Sukkar: But Steve, let’s use established suburbs. If you were going to massively increase the density in an established suburb, their infrastructure is typically already buckling under the strain of their own population, so the truth is you have to upgrade infrastructure wherever more people are going to live. Whether that’s a urban infill location or whether that’s a Greenfield site if you’re gonna put tens of thousands of more people somewhere, you’re going to have to upgrade the infrastructure no matter what and I can tell you there are Australians in suburbs around this country, Steve, who are probably sitting in traffic right now as we speak – sort of yelling out saying hold on, you’ve got to upgrade infrastructure wherever you’re going to put more people, not just in Greenfield sites.

Steve Canane: In Melbourne Yesterday we saw Brighton residents chanting ‘shame, Premier, shame’ as the premier just into Allen announced a policy to create 50 new activity zones to build more residential housing near train stations and tram stops as well. If you’d have been there who would you be supporting – the Premier or the hecklers?

Michael Sukkar: Well I think we always support Australians and we’re on the side of Australians, so we’re on the side of the people who woke up and rather than having any community consultation, woke up and saw this pronouncement from the Premier that all of a sudden their suburb would have 20 story towers in it. I think most Australians…

Steve Canane: But how do you deal with the supply issue unless you’re willing to build those kind of high rise towers that take a lot of people in?

Michael Sukkar: Well precisely through the policy we announced on the weekend – our Housing Infrastructure Programme will unlock 500,000 new homes, it will unlock 500,000 of the most affordable homes typically for first time buyers that tends to be the province of first time buyers. But the truth is if you’re going to make any of these sorts of investments or changes you’ve got to consult with the people who are affected. Now just for people to wake up one morning and read that there’s gonna be a 20 story tower next door to them, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that they’re a bit cranky when that’s the first they’ve heard of it and that’s the problem with this announcement – there’s been no discussion with the community and we’ll always stand with the Australian people, not with the Premier of a terrible government here in Victoria.

Steve Canane: Okay I want a brief answer on this one before we go – this coalition housing supply policy announced on the weekend – is this the last housing supply policy you will announce in the lead up to the next election?

Michael Sukkar: No, we’ll have many more announcements. This is a continuation of a succession of announcements we’ve made. As you’re aware we announced in Peter Dutton’s first budget in reply that we would allow first time buyers access to up to $50,000 of their super to get over the deposit hurdle, we announced the cut to migration to free up 100,000 homes, we announced a ban on foreign residents buying property, so this is the latest announcement of many and I can assure your listeners, Steve, that we will have many announcements on housing.

Steve Canane: We’ll talk to you when your next one comes up, Michael, thanks for your time this morning.

Michael Sukkar: Good on you, Steve.

Steve Canane: Thank you, Michael Sukkar their oppositions housing spokesperson on Radio National Breakfast.

ENDS